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With Paula Pant

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#613: Rachel Rodgers: This Multimillionaire Started With $330,000 in Debt and a $41,000 Salary

Rachel Rodgers graduated from law school with $330,000 in student loans. Her starting salary? Just $41,000.

Most people would have accepted this crushing debt-to-income ratio. They’d slowly chip away at payments for decades. Rodgers had a different plan.

She deferred her loans and started her own virtual law practice in 2008 — during the recession, when jobs were scarce and most lawyers were struggling to find work.

Her mom thought she was crazy.

Her first year, she made around $65,000 in gross revenue with only $300 in overhead costs. By year two, she was earning $300,000.

The key to her success wasn’t cutting expenses or living on rice and beans. Rodgers focused entirely on earning more money.

We talk about the practical steps she took to scale her business.

She waited until hitting $250,000 in annual revenue before bringing on her first full-time employee — an administrative assistant who immediately paid for herself by responding to client inquiries faster than Rodgers could manage alone.

Rodgers also shares insights from a CEO’s perspective on what employees should know when asking for a raise.

Understand your company’s goals. Know your boss’s pain points. When you spot a problem, bring three solutions — not just the issue. She usually goes with whatever option her team recommends.

“You are the asset,” she explains. This mindset applies whether you’re an entrepreneur or an employee trying to maximize your career potential.

Our interview covers her transition from solopreneur to multimillion-dollar business owner, her approach to leading employees, and her philosophy on building wealth through entrepreneurship rather than cost-cutting.

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#612: How to Know If You’re Cut Out for Entrepreneurship Before You Risk Everything, with Grant Sabatier

Grant Sabatier never worked in retail, never worked in a bookstore, and had no idea what he was doing when he opened Clintonville Books in Columbus, Ohio.

But that’s exactly the point.

The experiment required 1,200 hours of solo work — measuring spaces, moving 40,000 books, and navigating city regulations.

But it taught him something crucial: even experienced entrepreneurs face steep learning curves when they try something new.

The serial entrepreneur and author of “Inner Entrepreneur” joins us to share his unconventional journey from online businesses to brick-and-mortar retail.
He also explains why he believes everyone will become an entrepreneur within the next decade — whether they want to or not.

We dive deep into Sabatier’s framework for the four stages of entrepreneurship.

The first stage is experimental — you’re figuring out how entrepreneurship feels and testing ideas with minimal risk. Most people skip the crucial research phase and invest too much money too quickly.

The second stage focuses on building sustainable systems as a solopreneur. Thanks to AI and modern tools, Sabatier launched a new website in 10 minutes recently — something that would have taken two weeks just five years ago.

Stage three involves intentional growth. Sabatier warns against the common trap of scaling rapidly without considering how you want entrepreneurship to fit into your life.

The final stage is empire entrepreneurship — using cash flow from successful businesses to acquire other companies rather than investing in traditional assets like stocks or real estate.

Throughout our conversation, we explore the most common reasons businesses fail, how to avoid fragmented attention, and why Sabatier believes your story is your competitive advantage in an AI-driven world.

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#611: Q&A: “Is It REALLY Different This Time?”

With the state of the world changing so rapidly, Lesley is struggling to accept that “this time isn’t different.” Does the past still reliably inform the present in the face of major decisions today?

An anonymous caller and her husband want to achieve financial independence through real estate within 10 years. Is it better to pay off existing mortgages or prioritize buying more rentals?

Melanie feels duped by the FICO credit scoring system. She’s doing all the right things, but her credit score is still moving in the wrong direction. What’s going on here?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I tackle these three questions in today’s episode.

Enjoy!

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#610: Your Goals Might Be Killing You (Literally), with Sebastien Page

In 2005, Sebastien Page nearly died from a mysterious bacterial infection that doctors couldn’t diagnose for a week.

A single observant physician noticed cuts on his toes from running in wet terrain and connected the dots.

The experience forced Page to confront mortality — and completely changed how he thinks about goals.

Page, the chief investment officer at T. Rowe Price and author of The Psychology of Leadership, joins us to share why traditional goal-setting might be sabotaging your happiness.

He explains how 80 percent of millennials say they just want to get rich, and 50 percent want to become famous.

But research from Harvard’s 80-year longitudinal study reveals something surprising: people who climbed the social ladder weren’t meaningfully happier than those who struggled financially.

The real predictor of long-term happiness? The quality of your relationships with others.

We explore the dark side of goals through a concept called “goal-induced blindness.”

Page uses Mount Everest as an example — climbers have a 4 percent chance of dying, the same odds as eating four poisoned gummies out of 100. Yet people still attempt the summit because they become blinded by the goal itself.

Page shares his own experience with goal-induced blindness during his demanding career in money management. The relentless travel and pressure contributed to his near-fatal infection in 2005. He learned that working less actually made him more productive.

We dive into Page’s framework called the “three Cs”: core beliefs, curves, and control theory.

Core beliefs are the filters through which you interpret the world — like whether you trust people or believe money should be spent versus saved.

Curves refer to stress management, based on research showing optimal performance doesn’t happen at zero stress.

Control theory teaches you when to exercise “strategic patience” versus making quick decisions.

Page also introduces the PERMA framework from positive psychology: positive emotions, engagement, relationships, meaning, and accomplishment. He calls the last four “proteins for your soul,” while positive emotions are more like a sugar high.

The discussion covers practical applications for everything from hiring decisions to relationship choices, using mathematical concepts like net present value to make better life decisions.

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#609: Q&A: How Not To Screw Up Retirement Spending

Eva is approaching financial independence, but she’s worried about messing up the transition. How does she set her portfolio up for success during the drawdown years of early retirement?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I deep-dive into this question in today’s episode.

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#608: The Stoic Path to Wealth, with Billionaire Investor and Philanthropist Robert Rosenkrantz

At age seven, Robert Rosenkrantz made a decision that would shape his entire life: he would take full responsibility for his future.

As a child, Rosenkrantz watched his parents struggle financially. His father was unemployed for two years, and his mother worked as a drugstore clerk.

Their financial insecurity was painfully obvious to young Robert. He never knew if the electricity or telephone service would be shut off.

But rather than seeing this as an obstacle, he saw it as a path to self-reliance.

By age 14, Rosenkrantz was managing investments for his family. By 35, he had amassed $400,000 — equivalent to about $4 million today. Then came the pivotal moment that changed everything: a negotiation with wealthy entrepreneur Joe Mailman.

When Mailman expressed concerns about traditional investment structures that created a “heads you win, tails I lose” scenario, Rosenkrantz made a bold counter-offer. He put his entire liquid net worth at risk in exchange for a 50/50 profit split with no carried interest.

“First deal, we lost $100,000. The second one, we made $100 million,” Rosenkrantz says during the interview. “So it averaged out.”

Now 82, Rosenkrantz joins us to discuss his book, “The Stoic Capitalist,” and the principles that guided his career.

For over 35 years, he’s carried the same negotiation card from “Getting to Yes” in his wallet — a reminder that negotiation isn’t about winning, but solving problems together.

We talk about his counterintuitive investment philosophy: look for companies that require minimal specialized talent, like laundromats or self-storage facilities. He says these often make better investments than those needing exceptional management, like restaurants.

This principle guided his first major success, a lawn and garden products business that essentially put dirt in bags — a simple operation that became a regional monopoly and eventually sold for $100 million.

Today, Rosenkrantz funds scientific research on longevity and hosts debate programs that present balanced perspectives on contentious issues. His philanthropy includes backing a groundbreaking study that has extended worm lifespans from 15 days to over 250 days — potentially the longest lifespan extension ever achieved in any organism.

When asked about retirement, he responds: “How do you spell that?”

His advice for decision-making comes straight from stoic philosophy: focus only on what you can control — the present and future, not the past. This means disregarding sunk costs completely when making decisions and using reason to regulate emotions.

For Rosenkrantz, counting the zeros — focusing only on opportunities with enough potential impact — helps prioritize time and delegate effectively. At 82, he still practices these principles daily, considering himself “biologically more like 70 and getting younger.”

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#607: Q&A: Remember When Money Advice Came From Just One Book at the Library?

George is a worried baby boomer, wondering if today’s generation is drowning in the noise of today’s financial landscape. How does one find a balance between information and overload?

Heather is stunned by the notion that renting could make more financial sense than buying. Where she’s from, the numbers seem to always swing in favor of owning. What’s she missing?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I tackle these questions in today’s episode.

Enjoy!

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#606: Can You Really Afford to Die? – with Hospice and Oncology Nurse Suzanne O’Brien

Hospice nurse and end-of-life educator Suzanne O’Brien joins us to discuss the financial realities of dying in America — and they might surprise you.

Remember Aretha Franklin?

Her handwritten will was found in her couch cushions after she passed away. Despite her substantial wealth, this simple document was legally upheld. It’s a powerful reminder that having any form of will is better than none at all.

But there’s more to worry about than just having a will or trust. The costs of aging and dying can add up fast.

Long-term care costs can quickly deplete even substantial savings. Suzanne shares a story about a couple with over $5 million who were shocked to learn how quickly 24/7 care for dementia would consume their nest egg.

Traditional funerals average between $7,000-$11,000, but there are much more affordable alternatives:

• Home wakes and natural burials can cost just a few hundred dollars
• Water cremation offers an environmentally friendly option
• Whole body donation to medical institutions costs nothing while contributing to education

Planning ahead gives you control over these decisions and spares your loved ones additional stress. Multi-generational living arrangements can also reduce caregiving costs and address concerns like isolation and safety for aging family members.

Suzanne also shares stories about the emotional side of dying. Did you know some people seem to choose when they go? She tells us about a 99-year-old woman in a coma who somehow held on for days until she turned 100, then passed away that very night.

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#605: Q&A: My Boss Said Return to Office. So I’m Quitting.

In light of recent federal mandates to return to the office, Pedro is having a hard time giving up on his fully remote lifestyle. Is there a creative solution to his dilemma?

An anonymous caller is excited to move abroad permanently. How should she structure her investments to support her international lifestyle while maintaining a home base in the US?

Former financial planner Joe Saul-Sehy and I tackle these questions in today’s episode.

Enjoy!

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#604: First Friday: How April’s Tariffs Changed the Economy

The biggest trade shake-up in 135 years is happening right now.

April brought tariff levels that economists say haven’t been seen since the 1890s, creating ripple effects throughout the economy.

We’re seeing a stark disconnect between official economic data and how people feel about their financial future.

While the economy added 177,000 jobs in April — beating forecasts — consumer confidence has plummeted to alarming levels.

Almost 70 percent of Americans now expect higher unemployment ahead, despite the strong job numbers.

The tariffs have triggered some unexpected behaviors. Companies rushed to import goods before prices increased, which ironically pushed the trade deficit to record levels.

Consumers went on buying sprees for cars, computers, and other expensive items, fearing they’d soon cost much more.

Meanwhile, inflation expectations have surged to their highest levels in decades.

What does this mean for investors? Bond markets reacted dramatically, with Treasury yields posting one of the sharpest spikes on record mid-April before settling back down.

The dollar weakened significantly, and economists have raised recession probability to 45 percent — up from 30 percent just last month.
Small businesses are feeling the uncertainty too.

After initial optimism about potential tax cuts and deregulation, their expectations have soured amid concerns about how tariffs might hurt smaller firms disproportionately.

Market volatility has hit retirement savers particularly hard. We take a call from a listener named Johanna who shared that she lost 30 percent of her portfolio due to recent tariff-related swings.

She’s wondering whether she’s still “Coast FIRE” — even when market shocks alter her retirement math.

Join us as we break down April’s economic data, explain what’s behind the market volatility, and discuss what these historic tariffs might mean for your money in the months ahead.

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