Brandon always wanted to be wealthy. He just didn’t know why.
“I don’t like fancy cars, and big houses just seem inefficient,” he said. “I just wanted to have money to manage.”
But in 2011, Brandon discovered the concept of financial independence.
“That just blew my mind — it was just like, oh, I can buy my freedom, and my freedom is something that I would love to spend my money on,” he said.
Brandon and his wife Jill had always been prodigious savers. They lived in a cozy home in Vermont with a mortgage of around $890 per month. They rarely ate at restaurants. They kept their thermostat chillingly low.
After Brandon discovered the idea of financial independence, he intensified his already-strong savings habits. He researched tax-savings and travel rewards. He learned about stock-picking before choosing a passively-managed approach. He created a blog and podcast, MadFientist, to motivate himself to keep learning and teaching.
He focused on index fund investing and based his projections on the 4 percent withdrawal rule. He developed multiple benchmarks:
- A portfolio that could cover his bare-bones cost-of-living.
- A portfolio that could cover both necessities and discretionary spending.
Within three years, Brandon and Jill reached financial independence.
And then what?
“You have this whole world that’s opened up to you,” Brandon said. “You have 60-plus years that you’re filling 365 days a year with something and you need to … start thinking about that.”
Brandon had spent years imagining life after reaching financial freedom: He’d travel nonstop. He’d launch entrepreneurial projects. He’d quit his job.
He thought it would be the perfect life.
But reality has its own ideas.
He grew weary of full-time travel. He lost motivation for entrepreneurial ventures. And to his astonishment, he realized he would be happy to keep his job for an extra couple of years — provided, of course, that he could work remotely from Scotland, where the couple had decided to move. (He finally resigned last year, at age 34.)
“You’ve already lost other sources of motivation, like impressing your colleagues or working up the corporate ladder or getting praise from your boss,” he said. “But then to lose money as a source of motivation – it was just insane to me. That’s something I’ve been trying to process for the past year.”
“Money is not the motivation, so what is?”
In the quiet space that unfolded, Brandon discovered new hobbies: exercising, cooking, music. He signed up for rock-climbing lessons. He began weightlifting. He’s recording an album.
“I’m focusing more on … creating things for the joy of creating them,” he said, “and the feeling of having something put out in the world that wasn’t there before.”
Last month, Brandon and I filmed an interview in Ecuador about building a meaningful life after the 9-to-5 grind. Check it out.
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(I released our interview as a special Episode 100 celebration for my podcast. I also released these 19 seconds of ridiculousness for anyone who craves a mid-day distraction. Enjoy!)
Accidental Fire
Awesome interview Paula and thanks for posting! The Mad Fientist podcast is one of the sources that really convinced me to go part-time in my job now that I’m financially independent. I love Brandon’s story and I too want to spend more time creating things
Dave @ Married with Money
Brandon’s a bit of a legend, I love his story a lot and he’s a nerd which I definitely appreciate.
I feel like once I hit FI I’ll feel much the same way – unmotivated by money even if I did want to still work, and take up some cool hobbies. Recording an album is kind of awesome.
Finance-Obsessed Poet
Great Interview, Paula! As a poet/writer who is looking to subsidize my writing time through strong financial management, I enjoyed hearing about Brandon’s shift into music after FI. Go Brandon! And everyone else who is using FI to get creative!
I also just discovered Afford Anything a couple of weeks ago, and just wanted to let you know that it’s changed my life (#nobigdeal).
After binge reading the whole blog, I’m off the fence I was sitting on about whether to get a “regular job” once my kid goes to school. I’ve decided to maintain 20 hours a week of literary writing that doesn’t pay, while throwing every other spare minute into developing freelance income through technical writing, and investing every spare cent in real estate and index funds.
I won’t reach FI as early as you or the Mad Fientist or Mr Money Mustache, but I should be be to publish a second book in the next couple of years, raise my kid without daycare, travel copiously, and retire far earlier than average. (#continuousminiretirement)
If anyone on the blog has tips about real estate investing in Canada, let me know! (Where can one hit the one percent rule? Regina? North-Central BC? The rural Yukon? I know, I’m at the very beginning of a year of research, but if anyone has time-saving tips, I’m all ears!)
Also, if anyone has tips on what type of freelance writing is most lucrative, I’d love to hear about that too. Paula, you have addressed this already in articles about blogging and freelancing, which I will re-read. And since YOU are such a great writer, there are bound to be others on this site, so if anyone has books, blogs or articles to recommend on how to make a living as a freelance writer, again, I’m all ears 🙂
Okay, that’s all now…I will stop monopolizing the blog comments (is that my first freelance lesson…keep all blog comments short and sweet? Probably!)
Thanks for everything. This community rocks!
Kaitlyn
Scratch the Yukon from your 1 percent list!! Haha. For a territory of extreme land mass our housing prices are insanely high and building lots are scarce. On the other hand, working wages are high and living costs (minus housing) are relatively low.
I think the best bet in western Canada is rentals near universities such as Lethbridge or Saskatoon.
Aaron @liveyourwage
I wear my Mad Fientist t-shirt under my dress shirts at work. I’m a rebel that way.
Following Brandon for the last few years, I always wondered what his post FI life would look like. It’s inspiring to hear that it wasn’t exactly everything he thought, and yet he’s moving on and leaning into some new hobbies and passions.
Thanks for getting him to sit down for an interview, Paula!
Paula Pant
Haha! I wear my MadFientist t-shirt all the time. The t-shirt quality is excellent. I’m using the same suppliers for making Afford Anything shirts (coming soon!). 🙂
Ms. Frugal Asian Finance
This is such an honest and inspiring interview! I love the video format. Congrats on the 100th eposide!
It’s great to see Paula and Mad Fientist having such an interesting conversation about FIRE. I have also listened to the Mad Fientist podcast, and I think they are great. 🙂
Anna
This is a great interview, Paula. I really loved hearing about Brandon’s story. It was very inspirational and motivational. I have been inspired to follow in Brandon’s footsteps and try to live the simple life without working too hard and enjoying the better things that life has to offer.
W Properties
Good interview and insight. Important to think about what comes after getting the salary, money, net worth we all aim for and why we even want it in the first place.
Lily | The Frugal Gene
Heyy I’m late as usual. I’m a bit distracted by Brandon’s arms. Great interview! Congrats on the 100th episode! I stumbled on this because I’m trying to order a Mad Fientist t-shirt haha. This is #8 on Google hehe.
Paula Pant
I love the MadFientist shirts! I’m using his same suppliers / designers to make Afford Anything shirts. Glad you found this!! 🙂
Steveark
I so get losing money as a motivation, I didn’t use to get that but I do now. I am well known in my old corporate world which is comprised of only a few very large corporations. Earlier in this year I was called up and asked if I’d go back to a 9 to 5, for seven figures in annual compensation. That is more than I ever made prior to early retiring. As soon as I heard the offer I wondered if I’d be tempted or not. I just sat there for about ten seconds and felt inside myself to see if there was any part of me that was willing to go back to that world for over a million dollars a year, and no, not a single tingle over that figure. I have well more than enough money already, and my side gigs pay as much as I spend so what is an extra million or three going to mean to me? Nothing, nothing at all. I will admit my wife got a kind of crazy look in her eyes when I told her about it later!
Ramona @ Personal Finance Today
Loved the interview 🙂
I also found out that too much travel can be wearisome, this is why we usually travel about 2-3 months tops each year and spend the rest of the time at home. This allows us to also manage our businesses and take care of our rural home, which needs a lot of work done.
Paula Pant
That’s a fantastic balance between travel and home: you spread your wings AND develop your roots. 🙂
Aim Financial
Congratulations on your 100th podcast episode. Earlier in my life, money was my main motivator, but this made me selfish, and uncaring as I strove towards a goal that could never be fulfilled. The more I got, the more I wanted.
Now, my main motivator is to do what is good and right. Sharing and caring for other less fortunate (no matter how much I have) is now more important to me than creating wealth.
Greenbacks Magnet
This sounds like Richard Branson all the way. He always seems more focused on creation, fun, and the experience than the bottom line. I say whatever you do just make sure your having fun too.
Thanks,
GBM
J. boman
Awesome interview!
Yes, yes, money as goal is useless!
You need to create and explore to be happy!
And, happiness is my ultimate goal:-)
Thanks for sharing!
Sean @ FrugalMoneyMan
This is a great interview!
I am new to your site, but I will definitely be coming back for more! Brandon definitely is very relatable! I have always focused on figuring out the hobbies that make me happy in my spare time because once you retire, you have to figure out new things to fill your freshly new time in your 24 hour day. Some of my favorite hobbies now are going to the gym, writing, and cooking for my fiancée! I would love to one day become a “stay at home husband” and cook all the meals:)
Thanks for sharing this interview!
Gabe Sanders
It makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the great interview.
JoeHx
“And then what?” That’s the greatest question when it comes to the FIRE community. For me, I think, it will be about spending time with family – particularly my wife and soon-to-be-born son.
Olive
Awesome Interview. congratz on the episode.
Bill Cotter
Awesome interview. Actually, happiness is the peace of mind and I always try to be happy with what I have and I am doing.
Karen V
I watched the whole interview searching for a shred of altruism – I realise this is an interview about finances and his personal choices – a good one, but seriously lacking in any kind of generosity or creating an interesting or rewarding life.
Progressing, being creative and fostering start-ups is nice but once you reach FI might I suggest you get involved in charitable giving, effecting change through a volunteer based organization or improving the city you live in? Changing the world by reducing plastic consumption, educating folks, starting a foundation or basically any environmental activism through grants/money or mostly, just showing up. Volunteering and dedicating money towards causes you believe in draws you into having a purpose – like a job but so much better, so rewarding. Getting involved means you actually know what’s going on and can figure out the best places for allocating the money to effect change. This is a huge thing missing from FI conversations – playing golf all day or hanging at a yacht club makes productive people into total jerks, dissatisfied with life – we have all met them, don’t become one. Get out there, get involved.
(spending one million dollars in a week – $100,000 towards planting trees, investment fund for grants to improve parks and gardens, after school financial literacy programs, start a charity for incentivizing businesses to stop using plastic packaging, clean up local waterways, shut down plastic water bottle facilities etc etc. But,uh, buying a cabin? how about just Air BnB yourself to any ski destination in the world and never pay for the upkeep?)
Paula Pant
Hey Karen!
I’m glad you’re involved with giving! I’m spearheading a project with Charity: Water to build a well and distribute BioSand filters in underserved regions in Africa and Asia. These will provide hundreds of people with safe, clean drinking water. If you’d like to join the cause, please give at https://affordanything.com/water
I’m also launching the Afford Anything store, a fundraising site in which 100% of the profits will be donated to Charity: Water. My goal is to sponsor an entire water project in 2018. If you’d like to volunteer, please send us an email ( erin [at] affordanything [dot] com), as we have many volunteer tasks that we’d love your help with.
I’m involved with helping Nepalese people rebuild after the 2014 earthquake. Even today, 4 years later, there is still MUCH more rebuilding that needs to be done. You can learn more here: https://affordanything.com/give/
As for Brandon, I happen to know that both he and I have donated a significant amount of money to a local community in Ecuador, which we’ve both visited each year for the past 3 years.
I love your enthusiasm for giving, and I’d encourage you not to make assumptions about others. Bring forth your energy in a positive light.
Emenike Emmanuel
Hmm… On the reverse for me, money is a big motivation but I’m still managing to keep it under control so that my audience won’t notice that.
Of course, I need more money to be able to carry out some of my projects for the inner city.
When I make more money from my business, I become more motivated to strive for more.
I honestly do not think it’s wrong, anyways but what’s of paramount importance is that the quest for money must not make us do silly things.
Meanwhile, a big congratulations for your 100th podcast episode. The ability to hold on to a dream for that long is not something that comes easily.
Cheers.
Emenike