#83: The Toughest Episode I’ve Recorded So Far

Hi Paula,

I have been listening to your podcast for some time now. I have been rigorously straightening out my finances for the last few years and have discovered some great podcasts, yours being one of them. Personal finance is exactly that – personal; and there is not just one way to deal with your money. I find that your podcast focuses primary on intentional spending and I really enjoy it. I love hearing different perspectives and hearing new ideas so I don’t mind if our opinions about money differ occasionally because I can then mull over what and why I disagree and either change my opinion, or be more certain of my own. I would not worry about those who critique your choice of adds if they do not promote a frugal lifestyle because your focus is about choice – choosing what you do with your money.
I do admire your ethical standards and appreciate that you don’t promote products you would not recommend. I also understand your concern that adjusting your standards would lead down a slippery slope towards no standards. That being said, I see nothing wrong with promoting products that you do not use but would use if you had the need to do so.
I look forward to your future podcasts,
Taryn

Why don’t you simply loosen your original standard from companies/services that you *do* use to ones that you have at least tried and would certainly recommend to a friend? For instance, for ShipStation, you could say, “I don’t personally have a need to ship stuff, but if a friend asked me for a ideas for a service to help with their shipping business, I would definitely recommend ShipShape. I tried it for a week, sending some little things to my family, and it worked beautifully!” Or something.

Hi Paula,
The very fact that you are agonizing over a decision that 99% of people wouldn’t think twice about is precisely why you shouldn’t worry about compromising your ethics or alienating your base, whatever you decide.
My $0.02 would be in favor of you setting the bar at advertising businesses you would recommend to a friend or family member.
It is worth mentioning that this is a false dichotomy – I would certainly support your work via Patreon as I do several other podcasts. You could even offer a parallel ad-free podcast.
Thank you for for being so generous with you expertise and wisdom.

Paula, I might be your oldest listener, so theoretically maybe one of the wiser? Nah I don’t buy that either. But listen. You are amazing, I don’t even do real estate but I’m a huge fan because you are so smart, wise, funny and open. Take the path that earns the most! They are both ethical and your tribe needs you to survive above anything else. You are over thinking this. Be free to win!

Hey Paula!
At this point I have listened to all of your podcasts at least once (and a bunch with you on Stacking Benjamins) and I through that have come to really trust your judgment. If you think people could benefit from a product, then a lot probably can, whether or not you use it. The fact that you’re putting this much thought into this decision makes me think that there is no need to fear the “slippery slope”.
Thank you so much for producing this content! As a recent graduate it has really helped shape my goals…

Dalton

You are wringing your hands too much over this. I get paid to do my job. That doesn’t mean I don’t love and care about my work and have a sense of mission.

The problem arises when a person becomes are inauthentic. I remember when the Amateur Gourmet did a sponsored series of blog posts about Miracle Whip and it put his fan base into a tailspin – because Miracle Whip is disgusting and he would NEVER promote/use it unless he were being paid big bucks. That’s the danger to be avoided. Saying you like a product that you actually like? There’s nothing wrong with getting paid to tell the truth.

Hey Paula,

Long time reader, first time commenter. I get your hesitation to promote things that you don’t use. But I think it’s a reasonable thing to do, and here’s why:

Your site is Afford Anything. You can afford anything. Not everything, but anything. The whole idea behind the site is that you need to pick what’s important to you, not to stop spending on anything non-essential.

So I can totally see you running something along thee lines of “I don’t actually use this, but it’s something that you might find interesting. My personal goals and choices haven’t led me to using this regularly, but the reviews and the idea strike a chord with me, and I’d say if it interests you, you should definitely check it out. This is how I afford anything: I choose to not buy Product X, so that I can afford to buy Product Y. And this is why I love and use Product Y…”

There’s a path somewhere that leads to you doing the advertising you need to keep the podcast going without alienating your audience.

A couple of side thoughts to go along with this:

-You could think about providing a freemium model; give readers/listeners the choice of reading/listening without any ads if they pay a small monthly fee. The people who despise ads get their way for a couple bucks a month, and they show that they truly care about your content, and aren’t just being spiteful people. Totally fair, in the same way that people are OK with buying a book that’s just a repackaging of free website content.

-I have wanted to say for a while that I’m not fond of the juxtaposition between content and ads; the transition is too sharp. I thought about this for a while, because I’m guessing you do this to make it 150% clear that you’re entering ad mode, and I came up with the idea of putting in an intro and… outro to the ads. Something like an announcer saying “And now for the Afford Anything Halftime” and “And now back to the show!”

-Finally, I just wanted to say that you’re awesome. I’m a big fan. I’ve been reading your articles for years, and have listened to the podcast since M.O.N.E.Y. episode 1. Keep up the good work!

Matt

Hi Paula,

I’d be more than happy for you to have sponsors who you felt were of genuine use to your listeners. You know your listeners through questions, comments, emails and surveys and that information means you have the big picture on what may be helpful for people.

Thank you for your very open and honest podcast – that was brave! I love your show and have been listening for over 6 months now and it has really helped me focus on my goals and learn heaps about investing. Keep up the good work.

Hi Paula,

As a longtime listener, I appreciate the care you put into deciding your sponsors and ensuring that you’re only passing on good information to your listeners. As far as deciding whether or not to change your criteria for choosing them, I think if after doing your due diligence you determine that you WOULD use this company if you required this service, that’s about as good as you DO use a given company. You’re still doing the same research and giving them the same seal of approval, you just aren’t spending money on products/services that don’t add value directly to your life. As you said, just because you don’t use a certain company, that doesn’t mean that none of your listeners would be interested in using them. If it were me, “I would use this company if at some point in my life I decided I require this product or service” is just as credible as “I do use this company because this is a specific product or service that I need or want.” Personally, taking on sponsors that you would consider using but currently do not would not negatively impact my opinion of your show. Keep up the good work, and thanks for allowing us to give you our input!

This reminds me of an episode of Frasier. Frasier felt an ethical responsibility to his listeners to only run ads of companies he felt he could recommend since he’s a doctor.

I say cash in! Do not run ads for super shady companies, but I think it’s fine to expand your ads to other companies.

In the end, I want a listen to a FREE podcast. Do what you need to make sure this stays free and high quality. That’s up to the adults who listen to your podcast to decide if we use the company sponsored.

1. Thanks for all you do.

2. Ignore the haters.

3. The only result you’ll achieve in an effor to make us all happy is frustration. Your frustration.

4. As long as you differentiate your contented from your ads, which you do, I’ll be completely happy.

Be well!

Hi Paula. I am newer to your blog and this was my first Podcast despite your warning not to let it be your first. I have watched your YouTube finance reports which I have really enjoyed and found helpful as a brand new landlord. In terms of your sponsorship question, thought I would add my two cents. From my first experience with your blog and now videos and podcasts, I find you to be truly authentic. I believe this authenticity is what draws people to you. Therefore, I think your followers know that whatever sponsor you choose, it is done with only the best intention and with careful examination. In my opinion, you can most definitely use sponsors that you don’t have personal experience with. I appreciate your inner struggle with this – that in and of itself shows what an ethical person you are. The people that criticize are not sharing their personal lives and putting themselves out there like you are. What you are doing takes courage. I hope for every piece of negative feedback, you receive ten pieces of feedback like mine. I think you are an incredible and talented woman!

Paula,

Great podcast. Great blog. You do excellent work.

Consider your conundrum this way, you are depriving your tribe when you don’t bring to our attention a solid product/service just because you don’t personally need it.

We occupy different lifestyles, family units, ages, geographies, etc. Don’t short yourself and us by setting standards that keep us in the dark about potentially helpful products/services.

We trust your judgement. You should too.

Duane

Hi Paula!

Long time listener – since episode #1. Read your blog, and joined your beta course.

You are doing great things Paula and I appreciate your strength in sharing this episode!

Please consider doing both, and just letting us know which it is.

As far as consumerism – and your advocacy of things like Le Tote . . . . . . I’ve raised my daughter on my own since she was 3. She is now 22 and will graduate college in December with 2 degrees. She is independent enough to cook a gorgeous meal she created on her own, or put together workouts at the gym for both of us . . . . and she is fun enough to laugh and make up things like “fancy friday” which involves attending a free classical concert and fireworks with friends.

So frugality is my life.

I thank you sincerely for your advocacy of things like LeTote. And for your guidance of putting down the budget and savings, and yolo the rest.

There is plenty of opportunity to feel guilty about spending a few dollars on things – but you eliminate that and put really good perspective on making good strong choices.

As a person who myself is frugal and successful, it is very helpful to me to have your ideas as well to support my thinking and take it further along.

As a woman who will turn 50 this year, I love the idea that a young woman like yourself is so strong and capable, and accomplished . . . and someone I can rely on. Many of the people to whom I turn for advice are my age or older. You are wise beyond your years . . . or you are just wise beyond others’ years and are Perfectly Paula.

Much Gratitude! Keep doing great things!

Don’t worry Paula, choose whatever you feel is right. Some of us just make cups of tea when the ads come on.
People who don’t like what you do will just go away. Here’s a saying for you…..”You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time”.
Love your work.

Paula,
I heard you first on Stacking Benjamins and chased you down to your Podcasts. Now, I listen every week! At times I’ve been curious about the sponsors you chose, but figured you had your reasons, because you seem consistently ethical. Is it fair to say you assess multiple companies that work for you in a variety of ways? (Vanguard or others you want to invest in, those you trust with rehabs or property management, etc. ) Surely you evaluate each for their different roles–but would insist that all engage in ethical treatment of their employees, create work that is honest and structurally sound, fair negotiations, compliant with various regulations, etc., right? You could manage all sponsors as a section on your website. You could have one section listed as sponsors who use/trust, another for those you haven’t used but might/would use and have vetted. You could create an ethical standard for that segment of businesses with whom you have a business relationship but don’t necessarily patronize, then apply the standard going forward for your due dilligence. There doesn’t have to be moral flexibility, and you can be honor your values and yourself….and you can afford to maintain the Podcast.

Hi Paula

Your openness is refreshing.

As a marketer (in this context meaning someone who builds entire products) I’d recommend putting your brand as the primary consideration. Essentially your brand is what your listeners say it is. They do so based on the quality and usefulness of who you are and what you do.

You have built trust, so don’t squander it. But I believe you can maintain the personal recommendations and also expand your sponsor revenue base.

First, maintain the policy of recommending products and services you have tried and/or use. Great if you tried it and use it, also great if you tried it and liked it but decided it wasn’t quite for you. For these products and services continue to record the sponsor pieces: speak personally about the relevance and usefulness of the product. Say if you use it, or if you tried and liked, decided it’s not for you but recognize it would be great for others. For these sponsors you charge your maximum rate.

Then open a second, lower cost stream. In this case you assess and investigate the products and if they seem good, let them sponsor an ad of their own making, or made by your team but not featuring your voice. They would lack the personal touch and endorsement of the main sponsorships.

Stephen

Hi Paula,
First, let me say that I read a LOT of PF/FIRE blogs. Like . . . all of them, pretty much. I also listen to a LOT of podcasts – but, significantly, not a lot of finance-oriented podcasts. Why? Because to be frank, I’ve tried, and they generally suck. Either it’s the same interviews with the same people having the same conversations over and over (which I understand, especially when first launching a podcast, but there is a LIMIT, people), or it’s the same boring vanilla information from the financial advice standard-bearers of the major media outlets (yaaaawn). Your podcast, however, is the ONLY financially oriented (though I’d call it more Winning at Life oriented) podcast I continue to listen to (and talk about . . . a LOT) with fervor and near-zealotry. Okay, actually, full-on zealotry.

You bring something fresh, different, and honest to the table that no one else has. I’ve been listening from episode 1 (back when it was M.O.N.E.Y) and haven’t missed or skipped a single one. I can’t even count the number of sudden bolts of insight and “AH HA!” moments I’ve experienced from your podcast. And even more “hmm . . . I’ve never thought about it that way or heard anyone else make that point – how fascinating!” moments.

Anyone who thinks you’re running a Frugal Weirdo operation around here and gets their knickers in a twist over a thirty-second advertisement for widgets (or whatever) clearly isn’t paying attention to the content and wisdom you are providing, so don’t even worry about them. Yes, there is a lot of overlap in this sphere between frugality, FIRE, PF, etc – I am a prime example of that! However, I get my Frugal Weirdo fix elsewhere. I get my no-bullshit, practical, proven advice – and a ton of food for thought which challenges my assumptions and makes me examine my choices – from Afford Anything.

I trust you to respect the golden goose. I don’t need you to personally use a product to feel comfortable trusting you’ve done due diligence. You have already ACHIEVED what most of us are trying to do, here. Obviously, your needs are different. Also, I’m a grown up with critical thinking skills and decision-making power. And frankly, you are delivering value that deserves to be compensated. Don’t apologize or feel badly for it.

You, girl, are a rockstar. Those people who criticize you for accepting sponsorships – thus making this venture financially viable so that you can continue to deliver exceptional content – can GO POUND SAND.

Much love and respect, and many, many thanks for all the awesome you create in this world.

Jennifer

Hi Paula,

I’ve listened to every episode of your podcast and believe it’s the best financial podcast out there. I greatly appreciate how conscientious you are about everything you do. You’ve established a level of trust with your followers, and I don’t think that would change at all even if you loosen your standard of choosing sponsors. The fact that you are thinking so hard about this leads me to believe that there is no risk of a “slippery slope.” Believe in yourself and your judgement. Personally, the way I prefer the blogs I follow to choose sponsors is simply by picking companies they believe in and trust. It doesn’t necessarily have to be something they are planning to continue to use themselves.

I so appreciate your integrity, Paula. The question seems to be whether or not to take on sponsors that you don’t personally use but may be of use to the listeners. I’d also ask, what happens if you don’t take them on? From what I heard, you’d be overburdened by financially covering the costs of the podcast and your site–resources which, if I understand correctly, you don’t get paid to create and which provide a ton of value to many, many people.

We makes choices all the time to get ads in exchange for free apps. I can understand where it may seem like a slipperly slope to start letting in advertisers you don’t personally use, but maybe there just needs to be an extra threshold that you haven’t thought of yet so that you can feel at peace with it.

Once again, thank you for being so thoughtful about this decision. Your integrity is why I value the work you do.

Hey Paula. I’m a newer listener as I heard you mentioned in a recent episode of Bigger Pockets and wanted to give you a listen. I’m glad I did, as I’ve found you to be very open and honesty in the ups, downs, and reality of real estate and finances. I also appreciated you being open and admitting the struggles you’ve had from an ethical stand point in this episode. I can only picture how you’re torn between “this is a business, do what’s best for that” and “this is ethical, I can’t tell people to do trust this company and have it go down in flames”.

The best advise I can give you is to make an ethical check list (since no one can try every company or product out there), and put everyone you don’t know through it. This could include the product itself, cost, risk to the consumer (telling everyone to invest all they have into bitcoin for example vs sign up for this service that stream lines your grocery list), history, product reviews (if you trust another blogger or site), etc etc. Also something that could help separate the “I’ve used this personally” vs “I haven’t” may also help make you feel better about things too.

Remember, no matter how ethical you are, not everyone will have a good experience. You can’t weigh in what ifs vs what can be done with that extra amount. At the end of the day the only person who’s fully responsible for you, is you, and you need to do what is best for you and what you can live with.

Finally (I’m a long winded person), whatever help I can be I’m more than willing to.

Thanks again, hope all is well.

Paula, although I just discovered your podcast in 2017 I have listened to every episode (except the real estate ones). I listened to this episode this morning and I wanted to weigh in on your quandary because I have struggled with the exact same thing on my blog – only promoting what I have personally used. Your issue shed light for me that was really useful in my own situation.

If you’ve fully vetted the sponsors/companies as you did with Shipstation (I have a client who loves them BTW) then I say go for it! There will always be things that the listeners would benefit from that you may not personally use.

I don’t think it’s a slippery slope with proper vetting and ultimately you can always say no for any reason. It’s your blog. Your podcast. 🙂

Do it! (I’m a software junkie and love to try out new things that will help make my life easier)

Paula,
I realize your decision on this issue was made months in the past, but I can’t help but weigh in. I recently discovered your podcast and have been binge listening. Love it! I’m grateful to be exposed to all this information—FOR FREE mind you—and so if you choose to include ads to defray the cost of production, then great! Let the corporations pay to keep you on the air, not me! I’d say, simply, do no harm. Accept only such sponsors as you believe have ethical business practices and let us, the listeners, make the decisions on how we will spend our money. Honestly, I fast forward through most ads anyway, so don’t care whether they’re for mattress or meal plans or whatever else. As an aside, podcasters who choose not to run advertisements end up plugging their own products just as hard. I recognize podcasts and blogs cost money to maintain and want to thank you for all the time you contribute in the service of financial education. I’ve benefited greatly.